I watched a lot of t.v. growing up.My kids watch quite a bit of t.v. I do not think that t.v. is intrinsically bad. As far as the programing for kids these days, I consider it far superior to the t.v. that I grew up on. I know we had Sesame street, 3-2-1 Contact, Mister Roger's Neighborhood, etc., but nowadays, everything is educational, and encourages child participation. If Malcolm Gladwell, in his book 'The Tipping Point', is to be believed, they are rigorously tested for maximum educational impact. Hannah/Barbera is garbage (despite Scooby-Doo's current popularity) compared to most Nickelodeon shows. Noggin', an all day preschool age kids programming schedule, breaks down the specific benefits of the show about to air, whether it be language skills, communication, shapes, numbers, and so on.
I try to subscribe to the philosophy, moderation in all things. Like I said, I don't mind them watching t.v., but how much is to much? I'd appreciate your feedback on this.
I'm not here to judge, so I'll go first. The Boy's probably average between 5-7 hours of t.v. a day, while awake and active for 12-13 hours a day. This is exclusively kids programming on PBS, Nickelodeon, Disney, and Noggin. That I'm writing this post tells you I think it might be too much, but it is also the middle of winter. I do think I do a good job of getting them out of the house 2-3 hours a day for specific kids activities (bookstore, friends house, library, school) outside of day-to-day errands. Plus, there is general playtime (fort building, toys, etc.), book-reading time, numbers, and alphabet work.
Anywho, let me know what you think.
69 comments:
My kid...4 to 5 hours a day? 2 pixar movies plus a Thomas episode. Tack on about 2 to 3 more hours during that cold snap we had last two weeks.
RE: Noggin ,et al. I think that a t.v. progam telling you how it educates your kid is the same as your favorite candy proclaiming: NOW MADE WITH REAL MILK! It's still a bunch of crap. Better than watching Soprano's with your kid, but anyone who puts on Noggin/Nick jr and thinks they are doing it to educate is kidding themselves.
Since you're asking... If your kid has watched 7 hours of tv in one day I think that it is EASILY 2 hours to many. Maybe three hours to many.
Question: When you say 5 to 7 hours, is that 5 to 7 that the tv is on? OR Os that 5 to 7 hours where the kid is actively watching the screen?
p.s. Ask me this question again in a year when I have 2 kids
That is 5-7 hours the t.v. is on. It is often on even when they ignore it as they play.
I disagree about it all being crap. You can't tell me that Dora's constant hammering about maps, numbers, colors, animals, and shapes doesn't have some staying power and value compared to, say, Tom and Jerry's violence. The information is being absorbed, if that information is accurate and applied appropriately by the child, wouldn't that be considered a form of education.
Our kids are at different developmental levels though.
I think that Dora is better at selling backpacks and Pull-up pants than she is at teaching a kid how to count to three.
I think that the biggest benefit of childrens programing today is that, considering such a wide array, there is significantly less violence (Tom and Jerry) for them to imitate.
We put our kids in front of the t.v. and put Dora-type stuff on because of all the crap on all t.v. it is the least crappy. No half-decent parent puts their kid in front of Dora because Dora has such a valuable lesson today.
I think television is great. I don't watch much myself aside from movies (we rent a lot of movies). If it weren't for TV, I'd never get anything done around here. In the summer my kids rarely watch TV (only in the evenings when we are trying to wind them down). We are outside all day in the summer when it's not raining.
As for shows...I like SpongeBob (I actually watch it when I'm alone). I have an 8 and 6 year old that enjoy that Drake and Josh show (as do I) and that Ned's something or other (Me too).
Out of all the preschooler shows...the Disney line-up is the least annoying to me.
I like movies...Cars, Monsters Inc., Over the Hedge...
My two year old can sometimes count to fifteen. I do not do counting lessons with him. He watches a lot of Dora though and I think she can take a lot of credit for it.
He can also sing the alphabet song, but we do sing that song a lot together and/or he copies his brother.
I'd say my kids watch about 2-3 hours a day, on average.
But my five year old plays his Nintendo DS more than watching TV.
I agree that there are more shows on today that are educational.
My kids can hum Beethoven's 5th Symphony because of "Little Einsteins" among other classic melodies.
But with all that tv watching, regardless of how many hours, I think it's important that you are having reading time, outdoor activity time (I count going to Target as outdoor activity time), etc...
Which you are doing.
I wouldn't fret about it.
My grandmother babysat me until I was about 18 months old. She watched soap operas all day long and kept sticking a bottle in my mouth every time I cried.
And I turned out ok. ;)
Dave - I still think you are coming from a point of assumed negativity with regards to t.v. just because it is t.v. Teachers use t.v. throughout all grades to teach their kids. Companies use video to train their employees. The History channel sells stuff too, that doesn't mean it doesn't also supply information of value. The internet is mostly used for it's porn, but that doesn't mean everything you see there is porn related.
T.v. is a conveyance. The information available on t.v. is only as good as how you choose to use it. If less violence for them to imitate is good, because we know they do imitate what they see, why wouldn't them imitating Dora counting also be good?
Dirty - I consider the Pixar movies to be another step up in children's entertainment.
Valerie - Little Einstein's is another show I like, it's combination of classical music and masterpeices of art is another example I could use of quality programing. The reason, like you gave, is there are examples of my sons learning things I haven't directly taught them.
Hey, television is great, and you can't stop a child from loving it too. It is winter as well, so that probably jumps up the viewing by at least two hours. Ava watches about 6 hours in winter on average. Cinderella, Care Bears, Bambi, Lion King, Sponge Bob, and yes I do let her watch Tom and Jerry from time to time. I need something I like. In Srping and especially summer, the tv becomes more of a right before nap thing, or the just after a bath and before bedtime thing. So hold on baby, warm weather is coming.
Jolly Fingers
Here is a link to a portion of Gladwell's, 'The Tipping Point' concerning the study that goes into children's programming.
http://www.gladwell.com/tippingpoint/tp_excerpt3.html
I don't have kids, and in every conversation where I give parenting adivce, the parents always bring that up, but, from the stand point of a teacher, I think you're all way off base. (And I have a whole other theory about why people without children are the only ones who should be able to give advice, but I'll get into that another time)
Sure televison can be eductional, and sure it allows you to plunk the kids down and get some much needed down-time, or laundry time or whatever, but 5-7 hours?!?!?! Are you kidding me?
That's 1/2 the day that your kids are spend in passive, receptive behavior. Even if the show is "educational" it is still essentially passive, and God only knows how many advertisements your kids are subjected to on a daily basis.
Kids who watch a lot of television miss out on imaginative play, which is what teachs them to think abstractly. Kids who watch a lot of televison have fewer opportunities to develop social skills such as sharing, group play and leadership.
Reading a book, being read to, engaging in imaginative play with dolls, blocks, etc., or engaging in physical actiites are all much better choices than the television.
For Lulu's sake, I'd like to share a quote I heard once, "The best parent in the world, is the one without kids."
'nuff said.
You know, I think that's true, but not in the way that you meant it.
Here's why. Every single parent out there is unobjective. You *have* to believe that you are doing the right thing, in order to continue doing something as difficult as being a parent. As a parent you can't sit there and say "Wow, letting my kid watch 5-7 hours of TV a day is bad parenting" because that would mean telling yourself that you are guilty of bad parenting. So you justify it by telling yourself that that television is educational and that going to Target is quality time. Those of us who do not have children are capable of being objective and saying "Wow, 5-7 hours of televison a day is excessive and possibly detrimental to a child's best interests."
And I am not in any way accusing you or Phil or anyone else out there of being a bad parent, so let's not start a huge war over this. I'm sure that you are wonderful parents in many ways, but 5-7 hours of television a day?
Lulu - I appreciate the input, and I would tend to agree. Though, without hearing your theory, "people without children are the only ones who should be able to give advice," seems like a slippery slope.
If anyone has any links to studies regarding this subject, I'd appreciate that too.
I've decided to keep a specific log of our daily activities to get a better idea about improvements we can make as parents.
Dave - One thing you can do is turn the TV off when they aren't watching it. Don't have it on for the sake of background noise.
Lulu - For the record, the Target comment was meant as a joke.
I don't mean to start a huge war either. We're all "friends" here, right?
Lulu - My last comment went out before I read your latest comment. I have few illusions, I know I'm not a perfect parent, but I am trying to get better. I work towards objectivity and seek advice from experts (other parents, teachers like yourself) this post being an example of that effort.
So, thanks for the help. No offense is taken.
AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS:
http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics;107/2/423
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/113/4/708%20
MEDIA AND THE FAMILY
http://www.mediafamily.org/facts/facts_tveffect.shtml
Lulu - cool. Gracias.
Valarie--I figured it was a joke, but there are a whole lot of people out there who consider running errands to be quality time spent with their kids.
I know I sound like I have a bug up my ass aobut this subject, and I do, but I see so many kids every day who are unable to entertain or educate themselves because they have spent so much time in front of the television set, and have no idea how to actively approach something. If it doesn't appear on a screen in front of them, they are lost. I can't imagine thinking that reading a book (and I am not talking about an assigned book, I am talking about *any* book) is a punishment, but they do. Moany of my students, and I teach honors, don't pick up a book between the time school ends in June and the time it begins in September.
You're back!
Lulu - I don't mind the bug, it seems like passion to me. I hope all the kids teachers are as informed and enthusiastic.
From reading through those links you posted, our main goal should be limiting the time spent watching t.v. We seem to be following the other recommendations. Thanks again.
Grant - I am. Any thought on the subject?
I think my use of the word "crap" was a poor choice of words.
Lulu hit on the direction I was gonna take this when she brought up "active imagined play" and all that stuff.
Valerie- There's a misunderstanding. When I wrote that "we put our kids in front of the t.v..."....and so on. The "we" was an all-of-us-as-parents we. Not we, me and my wife.
I'm down with the just having the tv off deal.
Dave - Check out those links Lulu posted. Interesting, and informative.
I would add that in our case: if it's winter the TV is on more, usually with movies. If it's summer, it just isn't a focus because we're usually out the door right after breakfast. Winter sucks in the Midwest. BLAH
Wow..this got heated.
I do however completely disagree and refuse to walk on eggshells around certain people. People without children have no right to have a voice on parenting...ever. Who are you to judge or even give advice?
Effing annoying.
First, Dirty, your absolutes are annoying to me. Everyone is entitled to a voice on whatever subject they want, kids or no kids, just like you have the right to ignore them. This is America after all.
Second, I watched a shitload of TV growing up. A lot of it bad (Brady Bunch reruns, etc.). Despite this, I feel like I am a curious, creative person with a decent imagination. I have a good attention span. I can enjoy a book from time to time. While it's true that there are other things that might be better ways to occupy a child's time, I don't think it's something to get super worked up about. If a parent thinks that too much TV is having a detrimental effect on their child, then do what is necessary. If the kid is well-adjusted and intuitive and watches a lot of TV, maybe there's no problem. I don't think it's one of those things where you can make a blanket judgment.
I didn't realize that you received some sort of special training when you started popping out the brats, dirty. I thought it was just a case of you forgetting to "keep your legs closed" as you so eloquently phrase it on your blog. If you are indeed trained in Early Childhood Education, my mistake, sorry.
Chris--the problem with television seems to be (from the research that I have read, not from my own personal opinions) that lots of televison in early childhood can be detrimental to kids. The studies are less conclusive when it comes to older kids.
Chris...so sorry that I annoy you so. It just seems like you have a one way mind...as do I. Oh well.
lulu...I didn't know that being a middle aged, single bitter woman gave you the right to call my children brats...wow you are mature. I didn't know opening your legs in a marriage was a crime...so sorry.
Phil- My apologies for hijacking your blog for a sec. If you'd rather we take this elsewhere, please say the word.
Dirty- Please read what I say before responding to it. Here is what you said:
"People without children have no right to have a voice on parenting...ever. Who are you to judge or even give advice?"
I said I found your absolutes (the other being your position on abortion) annoying. If you interpret that as me thinking you are annoying generally, so be it. I have no idea what you mean by a "one way mind". You are the one who said what you did. I am saying that people, parents or not, should feel free to have a voice (or not have one) when it comes to kids. I'd rather you not compare me to you because we are not alike in this regard.
My fault Chris...I thought it read that I was absolutely annoying to you. I can't read sometimes.
I've always held strong to the fact that my views on abortion are my opinions based on things that I have gone through in my life...they make sense to me and if they don't to you or if they annoy you...then oh well.
One way mind was meant to be be like your way is right and how you feel is right and no one (no matter what points they may make) is going to change that.
It doesn't matter either way...
I still don't feel that someone has a right to throw out advice or thoughts on raising children when they don't have any of their own...it would be like you giving advice to a surgeon...walk the path and then speak...
...my opinion of course.
Wow-- I missed a lot...
First off, welcome back, Phil-- you were missed. I've enjoyed the double-nickel sports blog that you and Shelto and others have been doing. I think that your piece on Barry Bonds is the best thing I've ever read on the subject.
My two cents worth. Kim rigorously monitors the amount of television my stepdaughter watches. I'm not so strict with Adam, though he, I think, prefers playing video games, which one might argue was a form of television viewing.
Adam's mother and I separated when he was about two. I worked nights, so I'd watch him days and his mother would have him most nights, and he would spend a couple of nights a week at my home. It was funny-- when he walked in the door, he'd turn the television on-- and promptly ignore it. He was much more interested in his books, his toys, looking out the window-- seriously-- he did a huge amount of this as a small child-- and playing with water.
His mother and I made sure to instill a love of books early. We read to him from the day he was born on. And he loves books, he loves to read and has an incredible vocabulary for a kid his age. My stepdaughter does as well.
I'm with Phil-- all things in moderation; although I admit that my brothers and I watched a huge amount of television growing up. My mother worked, and so we pretty much watched it as much as we wanted. On the other hand, my parents bought a set of encyclopedias before we were born-- my brothers and I thumbed through them, looking at pictures that interested us, and were thrilled when we could actually read about what the pictures were about.
It's funny, because predicting based on pictures and titles is an actual strategy we teachers now use in our classrooms.
I disagree that you have to have children to have opinions on raising them. To the contrary, teachers like Lulu (and I) have a unique perspective from which to observe the effects of different parenting styles.
There have been a lot of studies showing that too much television is bad, for sure. I think that's one factor. The other is parenting. As I'm fond of saying, "parent" is a verb, not just a noun. Lu and I have, as teachers, seen the effects of people who think their jobs as parents are done. This phenonenon runs across class, race, ethnicity, etc.
Some years ago, I had a drinking buddy who was a counselor in a high income north shore (i.e. wealthy) school. At the time, I was working as a sub in the Cabrini Green housing projects. We came to the conclusion that the kids from each of our wildly differing environments who were troubled had, at the roots, identical causes to their problems-- lack of parental involvement. What I imagine every person reading this blog takes for granted-- that parents interact with their kids, do stuff with their kids, know, in general, where their kids are at a given point in a day-- is not something you can assume. There are an enormous amount of parents who just don't give a shit.
I really think that in the end, television, no television-- it's instilling an early love of reading and being an active parent that counts in the end.
For the record, I don't mind a hot debate. I've been known to start a few myself, and I think I learn from them.
I would ask that people try to stay on point, another skill I'm working on myself, and try to avoid the name-calling.
Chris - I think you and I come from a similar mind on this. We both grew up with alot of t.v., as did, I assume, most of our friends growing up, but as adults we approach the world with curiousity and an urge to learn as much as we can. I'd guess it's because our parents didn't neglect the rest of our education. I think it has to be a case by case, or kid by kid, consideration.
Lulu - The studies you linked to support your concerns. They also support the benefits of educational programing. "Studies have shown that children who watch carefully constructed educational programs that are aimed at their age level (such as Sesame Street), do better on pre-reading skills (at age 5) than children who watched infrequently or not at all (MacBeth, 1996, Wright, et al., 2001)."
Like I said earlier, I appreciate your input. I also value your passion for the well being of kids everywhere. Thanks again.
Dirty - Nothing makes a parent crazier than unsolicited advice about their kids. I understand your point of view, boy do I. At the same time, our children do not grow up in a vacum. Their behavior and actions affect others. I think as a society we insulate our kids to much, and outside advice can be beneficial.
Team Brennan - I've got my eye on you.
Johnny - It's good to be back. Thanks for your input, as a teacher and parent. Video games will probably require it's own post in a few years. A word to Adam about them, I'm pretty sure I have developed repedative stress disorder in my thumbs.
Outside advice can be beneficial...that is if the person has first hand knowledge...especially when it comes to my children.
Flannery said it better than I can in my comments today...I admire her way to word things.
My comments were in response to your post before I read this. And they are definately out of context for this arguement. I didn't realize the advice from the nonparent was also coming from a teacher. While I agree it grates to get child-rearing advice from a non-parent, I always try to listen to what teachers have to say as I have the utmost respect for them and I understand that they are the ones who suffer most because of the results of bad parenting. So, no disrespect intended in any direction.
My kids TV viewing varies depending on my or my husband's energy levels. To me, TV is a kind of triage. When the shit hits the fan, sometimes, TV is a tool I use to settle my children down. That is, when they are running around wild or when the madness starts to shine in their eyes. If they slow down and watch Oobi or Dora for a short time, they begin to focus and learn, their hostilities forgotten. Also, they are not up my ass for a brief period of time, so I can gather my strenght or put out the fire or whatever.
In the winter, it's hard to be stuck inside and engage with toddlers/pre-schoolers all day long. My kids are beginning to play together and entertain themselves, but they prefer me to be involved in nearly every activity. I usually do get down on the floor and play blocks with them and I read to them every night. But I also feel that they need to figure out how to entertain themselves. Whether it's playing with dolls or watching some TV for a little while, they need to do some things without me.
Another benefit of TV for kids is it brings up discussion topics. Right now, my eldest is always asking me things like, "Is the Tanner family real?" And it kicks off a conversation about fiction/non-fiction and reality and storytelling.
I am a TV fan. I like watching TV with my kids. Sometimes we have 5-7 hours a day. Sometimes none. Either way, if my husband and I are supportive and monitor what they see, I don't forsee lasting damage.
I respect teacher's thoughts also although unless they are MY child's teacher, I really don't care about their advice or 2 cents...especially if they don't have kids of their own.
I guess what erked me more than anything was the term "brats". You have your right to an opinion...everyone does (your's just isn't valid in my world)...the line is drawn when you use the term brat to children...mine or anyone else's.
It's never a good idea to get personal. I understand you are angry, but I would advise you against name-calling in retaliation. I don't know Lulu very well, but from what I can tell she is neither bitter, nor middle aged.
She's a concerned educator who has a legitimate voice in the debate on child-rearing. Listening never hurts, but name-calling often does.
And this is why I usually absent myself from serious bloguments such as these.
I guess I can validate my name calling via my children being called brats...which to me seems bitter. Her profile says she is 42...to me that is middle aged.
I should stay out of these things as it goes nowhere but I am bitter (admitted) and feel the need to speak up when I don't agree...because it is who I am.
It's never right to name-call. A teacher taught me that.
We must be approaching my record for amount of comments.
Let's turn this back to discussing children and t.v. though, shall we.
Sorry, Phil.
Name calling is not okay...especially when you are calling children that you have never met brats but I guess that is a free pass because OMG no one would want to disagree with some people.
About TV...my kids watch it and they are intelligent and creative and beautiful little "brats".
TV is good in moderation of course.
Flan - Thank you, but none needed.
Dirty - No one is getting a free pass, I asked everyone earlier to try and avoid name-calling.
To recap:
T.v.: Can be used for good, but too much is probably a bad thing.
Name-calling: Almost always a bad thing.
Dave: Is a soulless, killing machine.
Wow Phil, did you realize how controversial this post would be when you write it? You’ve certainly come back with a vengeance.
I apologize for the name-calling, I am sure that all of you bloggers out there have children who are every bit as charming and polite as you are. In the future, I will confine my comments to the posts of people I can engage in intelligent and productive conversation with, as there is no reason to turn this into a playground fight.
Phil—if you want any more information on media, video and television related educational issues, let me know. I have all sorts of interesting stuff.
Lulu - I had no idea. Thanks for the offer, I will probably ask as issues arise.
You have your eye on me? No thanks, my friend, I'm out of this one! Besides I already got all impassioned on a debate board over at Baby Center and have a feeling they may not like me for awhile. What the F ever.
Oh, and Dave IS a killing machine; I reference the sick pidgeon. ;)
Those Baby Center women are brutal...watch your back.
OMG - tell me about it! MDC is way more my tribe anyway.
sorry to hijack, Philo...
I knew I had to keep an eye on you.
HAHA
I think all non-parents (and especially teachers) are plenty entitled to express opinions on child rearing. Not only do we pay the taxes that educate other people's kids in the public schools, but we also all suffer the consequences of bad parenting. I regularly watch parents with children on the subways in New York throw trash on the ground without a single word of reprimand from the parents. And that's just the tip of a very large glacier. I think people should be required to take classes and obtain licensure before being allowed to procreate.
I feel I watched too much TV as a child and that it had certain detrimental effects. If I had kids I would hope to limit it to a few shows a day, although I can appreciate that if you're exhausted and the kids are driving you crazy, there may not be an attractive alternative to setting them down in front of the tv for a while. Therefore I wouldn't judge a parent for making that choice; I would only hope I had the ability to make a different choice.
CP - Thanks for coming by and commenting. Now you know the rest of the story...
I still think that t.v. can have a positive impact, apart from an entertaining distraction, if used properly along with adult participation. I also agree there can be to much.
After The Wife read this, she thought I exagerated the amount of time the kids watch, hence the log created to track it.
Thanks again.
It seems like the people without kids are only exposed to the worst cases and assume it's the same with all parents and children. I hate going to the stores to see the big, pajama wearing, slipper sporting women beat the crap out of their kids in the frozen food isle because the kid wants ice cream or the kids is just plain screaming. I don't feel that the amount of television has anything to do with how that child acts though. It's the parenting. If kids aren't loved and shown affection and if they aren't given quality time by their parents (and or caregivers), I don't feel the child will learn how to survive in society.
I personally get angry when people without children judge parents in "general" terms...all parents are different and all children are as well. I do understand that all the "bad" children tend to stand out and that is irritating whether you are a parent or not...but it isn't my child so I don't have a say.
Bottom line...TV is okay in moderation (like stated before) and of course WHAT is on the TV plays a big part as well...and only the parent of that child has a say in that...
Melinda...I never stated how many hours of TV my kids watch. My older 2 barely watch it at all (being in school and all). The amount of TV they watch a day is not excessive...I assure you of that. Please read all of the comments before you comment on the amount of TV my kids watch.
I was defending television as a parenting tool and if used in moderation, will have no ill effects. Of course one would have to love their children and engage in play (games, coloring, plain old fashion play) for a child to turn our well rounded in any situation.
I just get upset when people try to throw judgement or advice out there without walking in those shoes first and I wouldn't have thrown out name calling if my children weren't called brats which I looked at as an attack (I'm sorry for loving my kids).
Melinda June - Thanks for coming by and commenting.
However, I can't support your purpose for coming. If you had read all the comments you would see that I asked for an end to the name-calling. Please, make your point without insulting others.
Sorry for being inappropriate, Phil. You did ask for civility, but I was not in the mood, and that was wrong of me.
And Dirty, I am sorry for upsetting you.
Melinda June - 1000 Thank yous. Again, welcome, and thanks for commenting.
I too am sorry for upsetting anyone...when it comes to my children...I think of no one's feelings...motherly instinct.
I think kids learn more from reading The Official Site Of Grant Miller than watching television. I would recommend it to any parent.
But will they learn anything from Grant Miller Media I wonder?
Hi Phil,
First off this blog thing is wonderful, I love seeing entries/pics/videos of the kids so please keep em coming. I miss them sooooo much. I stumbled on this entry looking for pics of the boys and I feel compelled to respond. TV is a great tool to support things that you teach the boys. No matter what kind of media/books you expose the boys to, you have to make meaningful connections to it or none of it will stick, no matter how educational the program. For example, I agree that Dora is a great geography program, but you then have to expose them to maps ect. to give them multiple experiences with maps and then you can say things like "this is like the map they showed us on Dora this morning" Bottom line is kids need to be exposed to big concepts in a variety of ways, or they will never be able to retain or reuse the information they are learning. I hope this info is helpful. I'll check back soon for your response. Lots of love,
Sara
Sara, Thanks for the input. There are quite a few teachers that I link to off to the right of the page. By & By, Land-O-Lulu, Here comes Johnny Yen again... are all teachers who discuss teaching on their blogs if you are interested.
Hope things are good out there. Love ya!!
Phil
You're all full of shit.
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